Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Some people love the challenge, while others find it downright boring. But for many blind people, including myself, golf is a rare sport where eyesight is truly not required. And in fact, at times, it may just be a disadvantage.
Welcome to the Defending Vision podcast, where this blind man shows you exactly how he sees it. Hardship, humor, and keeping a vision alive. Throw on some headphones for the full audio experience.
All right, welcome, everyone. Super excited today to have a good friend, Frank Maynard, a wonderful golf instructor, someone I worked with in high school a lot and I stayed in touch with. So welcome, Frank. Thanks, Matt.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Appreciate having me. And, yeah, a lot of good times on the golf course for us over the years. So excited to spend some time with you.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: So I guess, real quick, what's your background in golf? I mean, obviously you've been doing it for a while and worked a couple different places. Just kind of. What's your background?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So I started playing golf when I was younger, played a lot of those sports as well, played a lot of competitive tennis when I was an early teenager, and then sort of gravitated towards golf. My parents played golf. My grandparents played golf, public municipal golf courses. Never a member of anywhere.
And then at like 13 or 14, I just sort of kept picking it up and had a couple friends that played and just continued to sort of get after it. And it was something great because I could play by myself and get paired up with other people and play with some, some buddies.
I was 16. My mom told me, you're gonna get a job. And I said, oh, okay, I am. So it was either she said, you could try and work at the golf course or you could work at the grocery store. I was like, well, the golf course sounds way better than grocery store. So I applied for a job and started working there and got golf privileges to play and started getting some real coaching.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: From a golf, who ended up being my mentor, Bill Johnson, for. Worked for him for nine years and played a little bit in college or played some high school golf in New Hampshire, where I grew up and then went to college and played a little bit in college and then graduated and sort of fast forward.
Was working at the club in New Hampshire in the summer and Florida in the wintertime because we could only play golf about seven months a year up in New Hampshire. And then I landed here in the Carolinas shortly thereafter. A friend of a friend told me about a job at UNC Finley golf course in Chapel Hill and started working there in 2000 and just started doing a lot of teaching and coaching.
That's where I met you. And it sort of fast forward. And I worked there for 22 years, if you can believe it. Hard to believe. And now I work for our national PJ of America as a player engagement consultant for Carolina's Tennessee and Alabama Northwest Florida section. So I work with golf professionals now on their teaching things. I really did it at Finley, both through the PJ of America and as well as other programs that they're able to make themselves more valuable, make themselves more money, and make the facility better as a whole.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, no surprise. You certainly did a lot of coaching. And, I mean, I think at times, through all four years of high school, I think you and I were doing, once or twice a week, a lot.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Of time on the golf course and sort of ahead of our time. We did spend a lot of time in the golf course, which is now a great way to teach and coach and. Yeah. A lot of. A lot of good times.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, if I recall. Tell me if this sounds right. I think we actually met at a blind youth clinic at Finley. I think you guys were doing some kind of.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: So I did a USBGA United States blind Golf association clinic in Raleigh.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: And I think that, if I remember the story correctly, your mom was looking for someone to coach you and.
And a couple other people's names. And she. I don't know if I was first or 15th, but she reached out to me and, you know, came over and met and chatted, and I still remember it in the grill there at Finley and sort of fast forward. It was a. It was a quick four years of high school and then a couple trips to cal events and.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Some good stuff.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. I was looking up. I guess USBGA started in, like, 1953, and I guess they started their junior golf in 92, so they've been around for quite a while.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: It surprises people when you say you play golf and you're blind and they. How on earth do you do that? It's like, actually, it's probably the most popular sport for the blind, so nobody really tends to think.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's great. And there's the PGF. America just did an event, the adaptive Open adaptive golf championship down in Florida. It's a few years in a row they've done it, and it's. There's a. There's a vision impaired division, as well, so really neat stuff.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: That's awesome. Right? Yeah. So I'd be curious, because I think you probably have the best sense of how to describe it, like how, just sort of how it works. I mean, you know, we, we kind of overuse the term coach, I suppose, as both someone teaching golf and then someone as a blind golfers coach helping them around the course. So if you want to just kind of describe how it works and setting the blind person up for the shot and going, sure.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: I mean, I think coach is a great word and a great ability to show what, what happens, right. So the golfer is making the swings and making contact with the golf ball and having some great a player caddy or player coach relationship that works. So trying to get you set up to the golf ball, get a feel for the shot, whether it be a tee shot or a putt all around. I continue to learn tremendous amount from you as we work together, really setting the club up behind the ball after a couple practice swings have been made and we've sort of discussed what we're going to do as far as the type of shot we're trying to hit and then getting out in front of you on the line extended for where we want the ball to go and talking to you so you understand where we're looking for. And then, you know, I move out of the way and give you an all clear and you make a great golf swing. And a lot of times the golf ball went in a really good spot. And, you know, the great thing about golf is we hit it, we find it, we hit it again. So, you know, there's going to be some that goes.
I learned a tremendous amount from you that, that helped me and helped the hundreds or if not thousands of golfers that I worked with since we started working together because you had a great sense of feel, a great sense of undulation and slope, especially around the putting surface and the greens, which was really great.
But it really was a, it's a, it's a two way relationship.
[00:07:05] Speaker A: I mean, well, it's, it's so different from sort of your typical golf round in that it really, it almost becomes a team sport. You know, like you say, it's really we, it's us describe, you know, discussing the shot. How do you, you know, what's the distance describe, you know, how the ball is sitting in the grass. It's really different.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's similar to a player caddy relationship when you, when you are experiencing that in person or on tv with a men's or a female event.
There, there's a lot of talking through and a lot of what shot to hit. And then it's all about the execution. So the only difference, really, is I'm setting up the club for you, getting the club, setting the club up, and then giving a little bit of assistance with direction there on the line, extended. And then you're. You're doing that. You're doing the work. Yeah.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: And then I suppose there are a couple. I mean, a little couple rule differences. Right. You can ground the club in the hazard, some small things like that, but I mean, really not that much. And I guess the other cool thing is that the US Golf association has adopted all the rules. So if you qualify for a tournament, playing any of them you want with those rules.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: 100%. Yeah. So there's. That's. I'm a little biased here, but I think golf world, because anybody can play it, you know, you can. You can be four or five year old or you can be a 95 year old. You could have, you know, impairments. You could be, you know, no impairments, but there's so many different variations of golf. You could hit a couple balls in the range. You could, you know, last year, for the first time ever, more off course golfers than on course golfers. So like a topgolf or driveshack putt puttery or whatever it is.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: So that's.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: That's tremendous signs that, you know, the game of golf is in a good spot. There's tons of people picking it up, which is wonderful. It's. It's for everyone.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: So.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. It's funny you mentioned the putting green. We tend to walk from the ball to the pin and, and back and sort of discuss, you know, what's the break, is it left or right? And how much. I had the opportunity at one point to play TPC Stonebray out in California and was playing with a couple members there. And we got to one of the greens and we walked it and I said, all right, I think it's a, you know, left to right six inches or something like that. And one of the, one of the members just absolutely starts losing. He's laughing his head off. I go, what? And he says, it's an optical illusion. Everybody looks at it and it looks the other way. And you got it right, you know, just feeling it with your feet. Gravity doesn't, doesn't change. It doesn't lie, you know.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: And again, you were. And we were. When we were doing this, you know, years ago, we're, again, sort of ahead of the curve because a lot of people utilize their, their vision for reading a putt. That's one of the things that I hear all the time and I talk to people about when I'm reading putts. But now a lot of people are starting to go to really utilizing their feet and standing on the putting line with their feet straddling it.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Interesting.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Sort of get a feel for you see guys and ladies on tour do that. So they're trying to take the visual out of it in some regards.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: That's interesting. Sure.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Your trendsetter there.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: I don't know. Don't know about that. But that's really interesting.
I mean, I think it is interesting. I think there's something to golf that it's less visual than people want to believe. It's visual that you need to know where you're trying to get to.
But the best golfers, they don't need to see anything to make a good swing, right?
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: I mean, there's a, it's, it's muscle memory and it's, you know, all of that.
[00:10:50] Speaker B: More than anything, one of the things I say to people regularly is, you know, this is, it's not a golf hit. We're not trying to hit the golf ball. It's a golf swing. So one of the to get into a swing feel is just to make swings without a ball or close your eyes and just so. I mean, in theory, you were continually making golf swings. You had no moment of impact. You couldn't see the golf ball, so you were just making golf swings. So that was incumbent on me to put the ball in the right spot, ball position, front or back, and then pick the club. And, you know, if I did my job and you made a good swing, then, you know, a lot of, a lot of times the shot turned out well because you were, you're not in a hit mode. You were in a swing mode, which was exciting.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: So, yeah, like I was saying, it looks like us. BGA started around 1953, and I guess it became blind golf became really popular after World War two with vets coming home who had lost their eyesight.
One book that I really enjoyed was now I see by Charlie Boswell. He was blinded during the battle of the bulge and apparently wound up hitting three hole in ones in his golf career and won something like 16 national tournaments.
So he's a darn good golfer. But it's interesting. One of the events you and I were at for Blind Babies foundation out in California, I don't know if you recall, we played with another blind golfer. Actually, to be honest, I can't remember his name at the time, but he made the comment to me at one point, don't let them try to have you make the trick shots. Don't have them tell you. Learn how to fade or draw or control your spin. And I always found that interesting. I'm a little bit of an overachiever and perfectionist, so I don't like that idea. But, you know, I'm not that level of golfer. But, hey, I'd like to be.
I'm kind of curious what you think, like, is there a reason that a blind, are those things that require vision? Like, can a blind golfer, you know, be at that level?
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's a great question. I mean, I think I'll back up and say that this applies to any golfer, like someone who has got vision or someone who's impaired that is blind. You know, golf is, it's a game which you think a lot of people think. It's easy. Oh, I can, this ball's not moving. I can, I can put it in the hole. I can get it there.
A tremendous amount with people that I taught and coached over the years that were very successful in life or business and, or other sports, and they came to it. They're like, I'm going to figure this thing out quickly. And they, it didn't take them very long to be very humbled. And, you know, golf is something you got to work at. And again, I think it's another reason it's such a great game because it does take practice and work.
So, yeah, whether you're, you know, blind or have good vision, there's certain opportunities and shots that you maybe take a risk on. Maybe the risk is worth a, worth it and you pull it off and it's a great thing. But a lot of times if you play to your strengths. And the other great thing about golf is, you know, that flag is on the green and it changes every day. So the flag might be right in the middle of the green, but a lot of times it's on the side on a slope behind a bunker. So there's no rule that says you have to hit it right at the flag. So hitting it to the middle of the green and then trying to two putt is a great thing. So, yeah, golf is golf. Golf is what you get at. There's a good opportunity to try some shots if you're feeling good and, or the course allows it.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: Sure, sure. Yeah. So, I mean, every, there's no two similar days at the same golf course.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, like, you know, you're, you're in Florida now. I'm in, I'm in North Carolina. Depending on the season and the weather, you know, the flag is going to change every day, but also the conditions. Right. It's going to be really wet. It's going to be really dry and firm. So the ball is going to roll out more. You could hit your seven iron different distances each day depending on the weather and undulation and slope. Yeah.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Shoot, I don't know. Maybe the humidity is thick enough. It slows the golf ball down. Who knows what they say?
Well, at least that's what we say when our ball lands short, right?
[00:15:07] Speaker B: That's right. Exactly.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah, guys.
Yeah. So we, we've had some fun experiences. We've played. We did. I mean, I think a lot of it, we got involved. I was heavily involved with the fundraisers, Duke children's. They had their classic tournaments. We got to go play in a couple of those and play with some pretty neat folks like Ted Roof, who was the football coach at Duke, Scott Sanderson, a former baseball player. So there were, there were some really fun experiences. Those were, they were interesting days because, I mean, you can, you can certainly attest that. I would say my, the worst part of my golf game back in high school was definitely the mental game and just relaxing between shots. And there's something different in those circumstances where people are relaxed and having fun and you're playing with some really hilarious people and just, you know, trying to enjoy the day. But those were some interesting experiences.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's, you know, it's a great experience. Right. Like playing with other people and sort of getting, at times getting out of your comfort zone. I mean, there's, there's different types of golf. There's golf where you're maybe just on the range or hitting some, and there's. Where you're out there playing maybe, you know, with some friends and you're feeling a little bit more relaxed, and then you get in a situation where you're. Maybe you're playing with someone new or you're playing in a, an event or a tournament, and maybe you're expectations are heightened. Like you said, you're a overachiever and a strong individual, which is great in golf. You can't push the accelerator too much. You got to back off a little bit, and some days you just don't have it, and that's okay. But we see that a lot with really strong individuals and strong golfers is, it's a learned experience to understand that some days are, you're going to have those days if we're paying attention to golf on tv or in person. Those guys and ladies, they have days, too, that are, that are struggles.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it's easy to watch them on tv and see them make an amazing shot and figure they do that every time, right?
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Well, I mean, yeah, on a tour event, you're watching 40 players that are the best of the best and the coverage is on the top five or ten of the best of the best. You're not seeing the guys and ladies that are missing the cut and they're not performing that well, they're not showing them. So, you know, gives you a little bit of a false sense of, oh, this, this looks easy, these guys are doing it or these ladies are doing it. But again, yeah, it takes a ton of practice and hard work to get to that level and to get to get comfortable and then tournament golf or sort of golf that you're uncomfortable with is. Is the next level.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Right? Right.
Yeah, it's been, I mean, golf has been awesome for me and kind of this podcast talking a lot about doing things that people either don't expect, you can because of your blindness or whatever hardship.
You know, it's been really an amazing. I mean, it's brought so many experiences along with just playing golf, but being able to like anybody, you make, you make one good shot and you're gonna go to the golf course again, hoping you hit the next one.
And you're constantly striving for, for better. Cause there is no perfect round of golf. So it's been a really, a really awesome thing for me. Just as something that's fun and has a social aspect and, you know, while it's done a little differently. You can do it like you say, you can do it blind, you can do it young, do it old.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you go to the golf course and you see people of all different ages, you know, men, women, different ethnicities. I mean, it's for everyone enjoyed in different, different factions in different ways.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: And it's not like basketball, football, baseball, where you need to be at a certain level of athleticism. You know, you don't have to be the strongest person around to play a fun round of golf. And that's pretty cool.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: And like you said, too, I mean, you can, you can do friends you can meet. You talked about like the classic, right? In the event we played out in California, you meet so many different people of all walks of life. They do different things for work. They're in school, they're older, they're younger. But the commonality is golf. So it's really great.
[00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And then the other one that. I think I've got a link to it on my website, is the video we did for children's miracle network.
That was pretty awesome. And I ended up going down and doing some speaking at one of their tournaments, at one of the Disney golf courses. They did the annual pro am tournament down there.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: The ceremonial starter, if I remember correctly, right, you hit.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that was not my best drive.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: I was not able to be there for that, so I know dad was there with you.
[00:20:10] Speaker A: I mean.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's kind of a big deal. You were the ceremonial starter for a PGA tournament.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: That was the drive. They didn't show too much. They focused on other ones.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: It's just.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: But it was a lot of fun.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Super, super great.
Yeah, super great.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: One of my. One of my favorite parts of that, if I think I have the name right, but I'm pretty sure they had Lee Jansen at the time, and they asked him out on the range to put a blindfold on and hit a drive. And of course, he says, sure, and he absolutely smokes it. It's perfect. You know, and everybody's amazed, and he just. Yeah, I practice like that occasionally. You know, don't need to see the ball to hit a drive, so.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah, those guys and ladies on the LPJ tour, they.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: They know.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: But, yeah, that's a. That's a great thing.
Do you remember your. When we used to go play Finley a lot? Do you remember your best nine hole score out there?
[00:21:12] Speaker A: Oh, gosh.
Mmm. That's a good question. No, I don't.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Why? I remember that you broke 40 twice.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: 39 and then a 38. I remember you making a birdie on number eight, the party par three. Made a putt from the left fringe for birdie.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: And then you pard like the 9th hole to shoot 38, so.
And I think, if I remember correctly, we were. We were playing right behind Carolina women's golf team, and they were out there, and you were inspiring them with your. With your play and your putt. But, yeah, I mean, you know, a very, very, very small percentage of the golfing population can break 80. And, you know, we did. We did a lot. Nine whole rounds just for time, and 40 twice, which is just awesome.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah, I did. We played a lot. I didn't do that. A high percentage, but, I mean, that's. It was a lot of fun. And those are, like you say, some days are just that good.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: You know, and other days, we generally.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: Remember the good days. Right. We remember the putts.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: Oh, of course.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: And the bunker shots and for you, those putts that they go in, you can hear the ball in the hole. I mean, that's a, that's a big deal.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: I always joke that if you make one good shot, you'll come back. Right. As long as you make one good shot, you're gonna play again. Cause you're thinking, I can hit two.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: No, it's the game that sort of lures you in, lures you in from hitting.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
Well, and you say, you know, you can hear the golf ball going in the hole. I've always just liked the aspect of you can hear and obviously, certainly feel when it's a good shot. You know, there's, there's a sound, there's a feel to it that just, you kind of go, okay, I just got to figure how to do that every time.
[00:22:59] Speaker B: And you good at, after you hit a shot. We did this a lot. I would ask you where did it go? And you could, you could very regularly get it correct based on the feel of where the club, the ball hit the club, club, face, open, close, where it went. You had, you were great at feeling that. So that's a, that's a great to.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Your work, trying to get that feedback as much as you can and work with it. Gosh, no. So, I mean, we've had some really neat experience and I think golf is, it's been a wonderful thing for me, both in just the opportunities, these different events that we've been to and meeting folks.
And I certainly appreciate all the time we spent together, you know, learning, learning the game. And I like to think I'm trying to get back on the course more. I like to think my mental game will be a little bit more mature than it was when I was a teenager.
But yeah, really appreciate everything we've gotten done together.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: It's great. And I appreciate our relationship on the, on the golf course and away from the golf course. And like I said, I was doing a lot of teaching and coaching when we were together. And every time that we had a lesson, hopefully you learned something from me. But I know I learned something from you, a different way for me to help talk to someone.
So you helped me tremendously, tremendously. So I'm very fortunate to have you in my life and so many good experiences there and, yeah, a lot of good stuff.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you. Frankenhein.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: Thanks, Matt. That was great.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: If you would like to learn more, go to defendingvision.com. and if you enjoyed the show, rate, review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts Google, Spotify or wherever you find your podcasts. Thanks for listening.
